soph (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sophia_sol) wrote2012-06-06 10:43 pm
sophia_sol) wrote2012-06-06 10:43 pm
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Avengers reaction, finally!
AVENGERS, RIGHT. I was going to post an Avengers reaction post beyond just my extensive thoughts about that one line, wasn't I! Well, this evening I saw the film for the second time, so maybe NOW is a good time? OKAY!
Okay, I loved the film the first time I saw it, but this time worked out WAY better. Many reasons for this!
1) I SAW IT IN 2D THIS TIME, which meant I could actually see what was happening in the fast action scenes! (I cannot track 3D well, and it makes my eyes hurt trying on top of that)
2) I saw it in the early evening instead of past midnight, so I wasn't exhausted!
3) I saw it already knowing what to expect, so I didn't have to expend as much effort trying to follow what was going on!
4) I saw it while on ADHD medication, which, while I still haven't gotten all the way to figuring out what's best for me there, is still enough to help some!
SO THE FILM WAS LIKE 100% ENJOYABLE? Like, ugh, SO MUCH LOVE. I do not think I can accurately share with you, though, all my thoughts, because really for that I'd have needed to be taking notes while watching the film, and I, uh, definitely wasn't pausing to do that!
But I was able to pay more attention to subtle details this time, and having been fully immersed in the fandom for the past while means that I was already intimately familiar with the IMPORTANT things that I needed to pay attention to. And it meant I could notice stuff like how the non-superpowered Avengers were actually getting kind of EXHAUSTED by the end of the battle. Or how Natasha's clearly afraid of the Hulk from the very beginning, not just from when she's chased by him -- she's not easily scared but the very idea of the Hulk is one that terrifies her (though of course, because she's badass, she's totally prepared to face him if necessary).
Or like, this time I actually successfully followed the PLOT of the movie? Last time I came out of the movie dripping feelings for all the characters but not actually sure about what happened other than the vague "Loki plus aliens try to take over earth, Avengers have issues with each other and try to stop the invasion." But this time I followed it all!
And ooh, I'm quite sure other people have talked about this, but at the very beginning of the movie before he's really DONE anything to Earth, Loki says something about how he's come too far to stop -- which kind of implies there's a possibility he WOULD choose to stop if he didn't think that was an impossibility! And he says the same thing again to his brother near the end. Because dude, I am not trying to be an apologist for the awful things Loki does, but HE IS NOT AN UNMITIGATED VILLAIN and he is REDEEMABLE and I JUST HAVE ALL THESE FEELS OKAY.
And -- OH WHATEVER. Everyone else in fandom has already posted a million and one excitable posts about everything in Avengers that is awesome, and I really don't need to go over it again, do I? Except to say that I have feels about ALL THE CHARACTERS and I will happily ship ALL THE THINGS.
Particular character-character interactions I have feels over:
1. Pepper/Tony, omg. I'd seen the two Iron Man movies, and enjoyed both characters but did not ship them. Here, in just a few brief scenes I was just like OMG OMG OMG SO ADORABLE
2. Pepper+Coulson, awwww! I totally see how they'd get along well with each other
3. Tony+Bruce, SCIENCE BROS with anger management issues!
4. Tony+Steve, snarky/angry bickering because they are on the surface so very very different from each other, but learning by the end to appreciate each other!
5. Natasha+Clint, there's clearly a lot going on there -- they clearly care a lot about each other, they clearly have a complicated history with each other. But where in another movie the Natasha-Clint stuff would mean Natasha having no real role but Clint's love interest, this movie gave them an interesting relationship of equals. PLUS. That relationship may or may not have been romantic and/or sexual in the past or present (or future), but the type of the connection between them doesn't matter, because the important thing is the depth of it. DUDE. Pretty much I am now firmly on the side of Natasha and Clint being each other's respective Most Important Person in life and I DON'T EVEN CARE how that manifests because NATASHA AND CLINT.
6. Thor+Loki, BROTHERS FOREVER, sldjfskdfhsdlflksd. They have a kind of antagonistic relationship but still clearly CARE, even though Loki is sublimating that into, um, attempting to kill Thor. BUT THEY ARE BROTHERS, DESPITE SHARING NO BLOOD. FAMILYYYYYY.
7. Maria Hill/Getting Shit Done. I LOVE THAT WOMAN OKAY.
8. Fury/Manipulation & Lies/Badass Coat. (does that mean that I ought to ship Fury/Loki? Um. I would be CURIOUS how that would go!)
9. Thor/Jane, even though Jane was Sir Not Appearing In This Film, because HOW CAN I NOT THINK THEY ARE ADORABLE TOGETHER
10. Tony+Steve+Natasha+Bruce+Clint+Thor, because TEAM. ENOUGH SAID.
11. Darcy/fandom, because she might not even be mentioned in this movie but FANDOM IS PROVING THAT DOESN'T MATTER and she's damn well a part of things anyways! Fandom ilu!
OKAY THAT IS PROBABLY ENOUGH FOR NOW. That is by no means an exhaustive list!
Anyways, there were only two bits in the film I didn't love. One was Thor's quip about Loki being adopted, because it's already clear to the viewer that THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO THOR. LOKI IS HIS BROTHER AND THAT IS THAT. So I don't think Thor would think of that even to make a joke!
The other was Coulson fanboying over Captain America -- I mean, well, I like the idea and stuff, I just COULD NOT WATCH because embarrassment squick to the MAX. COULSON SHUT UP YOU'RE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF.
In conclusion, AWESOME.
The other interesting thing, though, is just comparing the two different evenings I went to see this movie. This evening was with my dad, who loves shiny action movies and is perfectly happy for those to be superhero movies but doesn't actually care a whole lot about superheroes so I had to explain a bunch of stuff to him, and the first time was with a group of SUPER NERDY FRIENDS who know way more than me about comics. Both were fun in very different ways!
This evening Dad and I arrived like five minutes before the movie was due to start, and proceeded to laugh with each other and engage in commentary with each other throughout the movie because HOW COULD WE NOT. ~bonding!~
The first time -- well, let me just share with you what I wrote down at the time.
Essie and Russ and the Albertan and I went to see it on opening night, in costume of course. I was Hawkeye, Essie was Loki, Russ was Black Widow, and the Albertan was Iron Man. We all looked pretty fantastic if I do say so myself. :D
When we got to the theatre (like three hours before the movie was due to begin, OF COURSE, because standing in line can be astonishingly fun?) there were only two people there ahead of us in line, and they turned out to be people Essie and I knew back in high school! And they too were in costume -- as Thor and Iron Man. EXCELLENT.
So then we proceeded to just have basically the best time ever, sitting on the floor in the hallway of a movie theatre and geeking out to each other. Essie long ago incepted me into finding it genuinely enjoyable to listen to other people talk about comics, so I had a grand time, because Thor and Iron Man are both well-read and thoughtful when it comes to comics (and other nerdy things).
The conversation was wide-ranging too, of course, so occasionally we veered into subjects I could actually participate in, which was also good times.
Also hilarious was the careful way both sides of the conversation introduced elements of fandom into the conversation to see how far was acceptable/appreciated to talk about. Because one must be careful about talking about such things to people who wouldn't understand. But we went from an oblique reference to the AO3 early on, to me recommending to Thor near the end of the time we were waiting that she read that one really awesome Captain Jack Harkness/Chewbacca fic. YEAH.
So basically the evening would have been worth it just for the standing in line parts of the festivities, never even mind the movie, because GEEKING OUT WITH FELLOW GEEKS. AWESOME!
And then of course there WAS the movie, and we all shut up totally and watched it in deeply focused silence together.
In conclusion -- oh wait, I already had a conclusion, and then I kept talking. /o\ Well, for my SECOND conclusion, there are many ways to enjoy a movie-going experience, valuable for different reasons, and I am very happy I got to see it this second time.
And in a third conclusion, because I MIGHT AS WELL if I am on a roll like this, I don't think Avengers is actually my shiny new fandom? I mean, it's probably clear at this point that I'm moving on from bandom (BANDOM ILU BUT YOU ARE NO LONGER FIRST IN MY HEART), but though I'm happily into Avengers it hasn't ever been that all-consuming adoration that proper fandom-switching results in. I like Avengers a lot, don't get me wrong, and I have lots of feels! AS SHOULD BE OBVIOUS! But frankly I think the only reason I'm so into it right now is because it is the current fandom zeitgeist and I am caught up in everyone's enthusiasm. I haven't at all felt the need to go trawling through page after page of terrible fic to make sure I find all the gems, like I would if this were actually my shiny new fandom. This feels kind of weird for me! I don't usually do fandom in this way; it's usually kind of an all-or-nothing proposition with me and picking up fandoms! I'm curious to see where it goes.
Okay, I loved the film the first time I saw it, but this time worked out WAY better. Many reasons for this!
1) I SAW IT IN 2D THIS TIME, which meant I could actually see what was happening in the fast action scenes! (I cannot track 3D well, and it makes my eyes hurt trying on top of that)
2) I saw it in the early evening instead of past midnight, so I wasn't exhausted!
3) I saw it already knowing what to expect, so I didn't have to expend as much effort trying to follow what was going on!
4) I saw it while on ADHD medication, which, while I still haven't gotten all the way to figuring out what's best for me there, is still enough to help some!
SO THE FILM WAS LIKE 100% ENJOYABLE? Like, ugh, SO MUCH LOVE. I do not think I can accurately share with you, though, all my thoughts, because really for that I'd have needed to be taking notes while watching the film, and I, uh, definitely wasn't pausing to do that!
But I was able to pay more attention to subtle details this time, and having been fully immersed in the fandom for the past while means that I was already intimately familiar with the IMPORTANT things that I needed to pay attention to. And it meant I could notice stuff like how the non-superpowered Avengers were actually getting kind of EXHAUSTED by the end of the battle. Or how Natasha's clearly afraid of the Hulk from the very beginning, not just from when she's chased by him -- she's not easily scared but the very idea of the Hulk is one that terrifies her (though of course, because she's badass, she's totally prepared to face him if necessary).
Or like, this time I actually successfully followed the PLOT of the movie? Last time I came out of the movie dripping feelings for all the characters but not actually sure about what happened other than the vague "Loki plus aliens try to take over earth, Avengers have issues with each other and try to stop the invasion." But this time I followed it all!
And ooh, I'm quite sure other people have talked about this, but at the very beginning of the movie before he's really DONE anything to Earth, Loki says something about how he's come too far to stop -- which kind of implies there's a possibility he WOULD choose to stop if he didn't think that was an impossibility! And he says the same thing again to his brother near the end. Because dude, I am not trying to be an apologist for the awful things Loki does, but HE IS NOT AN UNMITIGATED VILLAIN and he is REDEEMABLE and I JUST HAVE ALL THESE FEELS OKAY.
And -- OH WHATEVER. Everyone else in fandom has already posted a million and one excitable posts about everything in Avengers that is awesome, and I really don't need to go over it again, do I? Except to say that I have feels about ALL THE CHARACTERS and I will happily ship ALL THE THINGS.
Particular character-character interactions I have feels over:
1. Pepper/Tony, omg. I'd seen the two Iron Man movies, and enjoyed both characters but did not ship them. Here, in just a few brief scenes I was just like OMG OMG OMG SO ADORABLE
2. Pepper+Coulson, awwww! I totally see how they'd get along well with each other
3. Tony+Bruce, SCIENCE BROS with anger management issues!
4. Tony+Steve, snarky/angry bickering because they are on the surface so very very different from each other, but learning by the end to appreciate each other!
5. Natasha+Clint, there's clearly a lot going on there -- they clearly care a lot about each other, they clearly have a complicated history with each other. But where in another movie the Natasha-Clint stuff would mean Natasha having no real role but Clint's love interest, this movie gave them an interesting relationship of equals. PLUS. That relationship may or may not have been romantic and/or sexual in the past or present (or future), but the type of the connection between them doesn't matter, because the important thing is the depth of it. DUDE. Pretty much I am now firmly on the side of Natasha and Clint being each other's respective Most Important Person in life and I DON'T EVEN CARE how that manifests because NATASHA AND CLINT.
6. Thor+Loki, BROTHERS FOREVER, sldjfskdfhsdlflksd. They have a kind of antagonistic relationship but still clearly CARE, even though Loki is sublimating that into, um, attempting to kill Thor. BUT THEY ARE BROTHERS, DESPITE SHARING NO BLOOD. FAMILYYYYYY.
7. Maria Hill/Getting Shit Done. I LOVE THAT WOMAN OKAY.
8. Fury/Manipulation & Lies/Badass Coat. (does that mean that I ought to ship Fury/Loki? Um. I would be CURIOUS how that would go!)
9. Thor/Jane, even though Jane was Sir Not Appearing In This Film, because HOW CAN I NOT THINK THEY ARE ADORABLE TOGETHER
10. Tony+Steve+Natasha+Bruce+Clint+Thor, because TEAM. ENOUGH SAID.
11. Darcy/fandom, because she might not even be mentioned in this movie but FANDOM IS PROVING THAT DOESN'T MATTER and she's damn well a part of things anyways! Fandom ilu!
OKAY THAT IS PROBABLY ENOUGH FOR NOW. That is by no means an exhaustive list!
Anyways, there were only two bits in the film I didn't love. One was Thor's quip about Loki being adopted, because it's already clear to the viewer that THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO THOR. LOKI IS HIS BROTHER AND THAT IS THAT. So I don't think Thor would think of that even to make a joke!
The other was Coulson fanboying over Captain America -- I mean, well, I like the idea and stuff, I just COULD NOT WATCH because embarrassment squick to the MAX. COULSON SHUT UP YOU'RE EMBARRASSING YOURSELF.
In conclusion, AWESOME.
The other interesting thing, though, is just comparing the two different evenings I went to see this movie. This evening was with my dad, who loves shiny action movies and is perfectly happy for those to be superhero movies but doesn't actually care a whole lot about superheroes so I had to explain a bunch of stuff to him, and the first time was with a group of SUPER NERDY FRIENDS who know way more than me about comics. Both were fun in very different ways!
This evening Dad and I arrived like five minutes before the movie was due to start, and proceeded to laugh with each other and engage in commentary with each other throughout the movie because HOW COULD WE NOT. ~bonding!~
The first time -- well, let me just share with you what I wrote down at the time.
Essie and Russ and the Albertan and I went to see it on opening night, in costume of course. I was Hawkeye, Essie was Loki, Russ was Black Widow, and the Albertan was Iron Man. We all looked pretty fantastic if I do say so myself. :D
When we got to the theatre (like three hours before the movie was due to begin, OF COURSE, because standing in line can be astonishingly fun?) there were only two people there ahead of us in line, and they turned out to be people Essie and I knew back in high school! And they too were in costume -- as Thor and Iron Man. EXCELLENT.
So then we proceeded to just have basically the best time ever, sitting on the floor in the hallway of a movie theatre and geeking out to each other. Essie long ago incepted me into finding it genuinely enjoyable to listen to other people talk about comics, so I had a grand time, because Thor and Iron Man are both well-read and thoughtful when it comes to comics (and other nerdy things).
The conversation was wide-ranging too, of course, so occasionally we veered into subjects I could actually participate in, which was also good times.
Also hilarious was the careful way both sides of the conversation introduced elements of fandom into the conversation to see how far was acceptable/appreciated to talk about. Because one must be careful about talking about such things to people who wouldn't understand. But we went from an oblique reference to the AO3 early on, to me recommending to Thor near the end of the time we were waiting that she read that one really awesome Captain Jack Harkness/Chewbacca fic. YEAH.
So basically the evening would have been worth it just for the standing in line parts of the festivities, never even mind the movie, because GEEKING OUT WITH FELLOW GEEKS. AWESOME!
And then of course there WAS the movie, and we all shut up totally and watched it in deeply focused silence together.
In conclusion -- oh wait, I already had a conclusion, and then I kept talking. /o\ Well, for my SECOND conclusion, there are many ways to enjoy a movie-going experience, valuable for different reasons, and I am very happy I got to see it this second time.
And in a third conclusion, because I MIGHT AS WELL if I am on a roll like this, I don't think Avengers is actually my shiny new fandom? I mean, it's probably clear at this point that I'm moving on from bandom (BANDOM ILU BUT YOU ARE NO LONGER FIRST IN MY HEART), but though I'm happily into Avengers it hasn't ever been that all-consuming adoration that proper fandom-switching results in. I like Avengers a lot, don't get me wrong, and I have lots of feels! AS SHOULD BE OBVIOUS! But frankly I think the only reason I'm so into it right now is because it is the current fandom zeitgeist and I am caught up in everyone's enthusiasm. I haven't at all felt the need to go trawling through page after page of terrible fic to make sure I find all the gems, like I would if this were actually my shiny new fandom. This feels kind of weird for me! I don't usually do fandom in this way; it's usually kind of an all-or-nothing proposition with me and picking up fandoms! I'm curious to see where it goes.
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This is honestly the first time I have actually seen someone put it EXACTLY like that, and that is EXACTLY how I feel. IDK, maybe I haven't been reading the right stuff (actually, I am totally anxious about reading any Loki fic, because what if they don't read him like I do?), but all I really want is to have a ginormous Loki Redemptionista movement. OMG waaaant ;__;
<3 <3 <3
I love your description of meeting fellow fans and that nervewracking process of trying to drop hints without actually saying anything :D That is such a perfect description of how it goes.
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Also I those testing the water fan conversations always make me grin, where you slowly slowly edge closer to saying, "SO HOWSABOUT THAT SLASH?"
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And ahahaha, I have not had those sorts of conversations OFTEN so I do not have much practice, but it was totally a lot of fun! We established FAIRLY QUICKLY that slash was okay -- I mean, both Thor and Iron Man were queer, so that didn't surprise me -- but getting to the point of feeling comfortable reccing kinky humanoid/nonhumanoid porn is INNNTERESTING.
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I don't have time right now, but assuming I rememeber, I'll do my best to come back with more recs for you <3
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I might come poke you for more once I've finished reading ;o)
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And yeah, do that -- pokes are a good thing, because I have a terrible memory.... :P
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(and thank goodness AO3 tracks one's reading history because Pinboard is currently down and I can't grab the link from there!)
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I STILL haven't read the other one, because I am betaing and reading Verity's SGA fic (so amazing, OMG!), but I am just about to get to it, and it is sort of ridiculous how much I'm still looking forward to it.
(Pinboard is down?? That is awful! Thank god I haven't needed it today.)
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(It is so weird! Pinboard is NEVER DOWN, and if it is, it's down for like five minutes ONLY before Maciej is all over that. But it was down for hours today, I think! Well, it's back up now, so that's good, and the @pinboard twitter says Maciej is in the process of writing a blog post about what's up)
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(oh wow, blog post sounds kind of serious! I'll be interested to see what he says.)
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I think Loki is in WAY over his head with the Chitauri, long before the beginning of the movie (and I think it's strongly implied that someone has tortured him at some point, although he's trying to convince himself he's in control of the deal). Is Loki still amoral and kind of awful? Yes! But I'm not sure he'd go for wholesale destruction on his own--that seems less entertaining than just fucking with everyone all the time.
I'm having real trouble finding Loki fic that works for me, though--not too apologist and not too "eeeeevil." He's supposed to be the god of mischief, not the god of blowing the world up because plot needs to happen. :-/
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And I hear you on Loki fic. There's such a vast array of interpretations of Loki -- I tend to mostly just roll with whatever an author chooses and accept it for the duration of the fic, but I feel your pain! And I have a rec for you! It's not movieverse, I'm afraid, but it does an AMAZING job of treating Loki like the trickster he fundamentally is: Walking in Shadows (http://archiveofourown.org/works/418815), by xparrot
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Not movie-canon is okay! *goes to read*