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sophia_sol) wrote2021-08-18 09:43 pm
sophia_sol) wrote2021-08-18 09:43 pm
Spinning Silver, by Naomi Novik
I was inspired to reread this book because of how much I didn't care about A Deadly Education when I read that one. And I love Spinning Silver? So much?? It is GOOD. The themes and the worldbuilding and the plot and the characters are all in harmony with each other, working together to create one story with a whole lot of power. I had remembered I'd loved this book but I'd forgotten just HOW good it is.
I paid more attention to people's expressions of sexual interest (or lack thereof) this time than last time, because of discussion in the comments to my review of A Deadly Education. (Thankslirazel for inspiring me to look at this more closely, with your comments on Mirnatius!) And tbh as a book Spinning Silver is fairly uninterested as a whole in people's sexualities! Much more interested in questions of power and privilege and belonging, and sex can be a part of all that, but it's definitely secondary in this book. Which is fascinating to see, given how much priority is given to sex by a lot of books and a lot of society, and I really appreciate it.
I am particularly interested in Staryk sexuality, because the Staryk lord clearly sees sex as a right that is owed to one's spouse. But also something that can be bartered away for something of equal value (equally high value!). How would a Staryk think of the notion of desire? Is it even a relevant concept in their framework? They're so alien in a lot of the ways they arrange their society, why not in this as well!
Specifically about Mirnatius though, I could still come down in multiple directions on whether he's ace or not. He spends a lot of the book very firmly rejecting the idea of having sex with his wife, and also the cousin who's in love with him, and also the idea of getting together with anyone else. And his priorities (when has the opportunity to have his own priorities) do not go in that direction. But there's also this quote, from Mirnatius's pov:
To me this reads like Mirnatius has been carefully preventing himself from ever letting himself have any interest in anyone, because the demon will take it as reason to immediately kill that person. Now, he might still be ace regardless, he hasn't really had the opportunity to learn whether he's sexually into anyone because he's been the property of the demon his whole life, and the answer might be no! But the answer might also be yes?
And it's also possible that he's only appreciating serving-maids and well-turned footmen in an entirely platonic way, but the corpses being left on his bed, and the smiling at them being a problem even in daylight, at least implies otherwise.
Idk! It's all real interesting though!
(I still feel firmly that the Mirnatius-Irina relationship is not a romance though, or even pointing towards becoming one, despite what I've seen allo people say in reviews. Emotionally intense, absolutely! But the one does not necessarily lead to the other.)
On another note, I wonder what Miryem's cousin Basia thinks of her wedding being crashed by a tsar and a Staryk king having a duel with each other! Not exactly the most auspicious of beginnings there. I hope Basia and Isaac have a nice life after that.
Also, last time I read this book, I didn't pay enough attention to the fact that Miryem using that tunnel to save her Staryk lord from imprisonment means it becomes no longer an option for the Jews of the city to escape should public sentiment turn it too dangerous to be Jewish there in the future. On my first read I was too focused on some other rather pressing questions, like what's going to happen next in this book?!? But like. That is not a minor thing to be giving up!
Even though Miryem and her family have a happy ending, even though Irina is now taking charge of the whole country with the intent to protect everyone, there's still that always-lingering threat of danger to Miryem's larger Jewish community. And Miryem's choices make that threat just a bit more dangerous. Which is of course part of one overall theme of the book, of making the choices you have to make when there are no good options.
Anyway this is all just a bunch of meandering thoughts on points I found of interest in this read-through, if you want something better approaching an actual review of this book then maybe check out the review from when I first read it!
I paid more attention to people's expressions of sexual interest (or lack thereof) this time than last time, because of discussion in the comments to my review of A Deadly Education. (Thanks
lirazel for inspiring me to look at this more closely, with your comments on Mirnatius!) And tbh as a book Spinning Silver is fairly uninterested as a whole in people's sexualities! Much more interested in questions of power and privilege and belonging, and sex can be a part of all that, but it's definitely secondary in this book. Which is fascinating to see, given how much priority is given to sex by a lot of books and a lot of society, and I really appreciate it.I am particularly interested in Staryk sexuality, because the Staryk lord clearly sees sex as a right that is owed to one's spouse. But also something that can be bartered away for something of equal value (equally high value!). How would a Staryk think of the notion of desire? Is it even a relevant concept in their framework? They're so alien in a lot of the ways they arrange their society, why not in this as well!
Specifically about Mirnatius though, I could still come down in multiple directions on whether he's ace or not. He spends a lot of the book very firmly rejecting the idea of having sex with his wife, and also the cousin who's in love with him, and also the idea of getting together with anyone else. And his priorities (when has the opportunity to have his own priorities) do not go in that direction. But there's also this quote, from Mirnatius's pov:
Under normal circumstances, when my friend wants itself a meal, it doesn't usually last long. I just hold my nose and dive deep until the screaming is all over, then cover things over and occasionally send a compensatory purse to the appropriate destination. I have had words with it about snatching up awkward people like noblemen and the parents of small children, to a little grudging effect, but that's only because it's not very picky. Unless I do something stupid like smile encouragingly at a serving-maid or a well-turned footman, even in broad daylight, in which case I'm sure to find their staring corpse in my bed a few nights later.
To me this reads like Mirnatius has been carefully preventing himself from ever letting himself have any interest in anyone, because the demon will take it as reason to immediately kill that person. Now, he might still be ace regardless, he hasn't really had the opportunity to learn whether he's sexually into anyone because he's been the property of the demon his whole life, and the answer might be no! But the answer might also be yes?
And it's also possible that he's only appreciating serving-maids and well-turned footmen in an entirely platonic way, but the corpses being left on his bed, and the smiling at them being a problem even in daylight, at least implies otherwise.
Idk! It's all real interesting though!
(I still feel firmly that the Mirnatius-Irina relationship is not a romance though, or even pointing towards becoming one, despite what I've seen allo people say in reviews. Emotionally intense, absolutely! But the one does not necessarily lead to the other.)
On another note, I wonder what Miryem's cousin Basia thinks of her wedding being crashed by a tsar and a Staryk king having a duel with each other! Not exactly the most auspicious of beginnings there. I hope Basia and Isaac have a nice life after that.
Also, last time I read this book, I didn't pay enough attention to the fact that Miryem using that tunnel to save her Staryk lord from imprisonment means it becomes no longer an option for the Jews of the city to escape should public sentiment turn it too dangerous to be Jewish there in the future. On my first read I was too focused on some other rather pressing questions, like what's going to happen next in this book?!? But like. That is not a minor thing to be giving up!
Even though Miryem and her family have a happy ending, even though Irina is now taking charge of the whole country with the intent to protect everyone, there's still that always-lingering threat of danger to Miryem's larger Jewish community. And Miryem's choices make that threat just a bit more dangerous. Which is of course part of one overall theme of the book, of making the choices you have to make when there are no good options.
Anyway this is all just a bunch of meandering thoughts on points I found of interest in this read-through, if you want something better approaching an actual review of this book then maybe check out the review from when I first read it!
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Any interest in anyone or anything. His aggressive apathy towards all matters of state did not come out of nowhere, and god knows what would happen if he did decide to care about taxes or whatnot.
(I still feel firmly that the Mirnatius-Irina relationship is not a romance though, or even pointing towards becoming one, despite what I've seen allo people say in reviews. Emotionally intense, absolutely! But the one does not necessarily lead to the other.)
The power dynamics of their relationship will always be screwed up in all sorts of unhealthy ways given... well... everything. Makes it hard to have a proper romance.
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And tbh as a book Spinning Silver is fairly uninterested as a whole in people's sexualities! Much more interested in questions of power and privilege and belonging, and sex can be a part of all that, but it's definitely secondary in this book.
Agreed. And I definitely think it's one of the reasons I love this book so much.
How would a Staryk think of the notion of desire? Is it even a relevant concept in their framework? They're so alien in a lot of the ways they arrange their society, why not in this as well!
Yeah, I kind of love that.
Now, he might still be ace regardless, he hasn't really had the opportunity to learn whether he's sexually into anyone because he's been the property of the demon his whole life, and the answer might be no! But the answer might also be yes?
Yes, this is definitely, definitely a possibility. I like the idea of an ace person being stuck with a demon who uses sex as a way of literally devouring innocent people, so I lean in the ace direction. And also: since sexuality is so fluid, it's entirely possible that he wasn't ace to begin with but then becomes so due to his experiences. I can see him just not having any interest in sex at all going forward even though theoretically he could have healthy relationships now.
I can read the Mirnatius-Irina relationship either way. If it's romantic, I still don't read it as sexual--I just can't really see them going there. But I am All About it being very intense and their lives being bound up together even if it stays entirely platonic.
I hope Basia and Isaac have a nice life after that.
Me too!
But like. That is not a minor thing to be giving up!
You're so right! Also a thing I did not notice until my second read.
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I like the idea of an ace person being stuck with a demon who uses sex as a way of literally devouring innocent people
Wait wait wait, have I been missing something all along, does the demon have sex with the people he eats?? I thought he was just like, metaphorically eating their life energy or whatever! That sure changes things!! That would sure fuck Mirnatius up extra hard where sex is concerned!
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I will say--I'm pretty bad at figuring out when it's aimed at me. But I do notice it with other people.
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I really have nothing more to say! It will never disappoint me.
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