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sophia_sol) wrote2012-02-09 09:51 pm
sophia_sol) wrote2012-02-09 09:51 pm
Among Others, by Jo Walton
OH RIGHT I was going to do posts about other books I've read lately! Here, have my thoughts about Among Others, by Jo Walton!
This is a fantastic novel; it feels really real and Mori feels really real. Except it's partially autobiographical which just makes me feel weird about it -- I don't know what to think! Except that it's excellent. I love how deeply important books are to her; I love the deep discussions and the meaning and the enjoyableness and the sheer breadth of stuff she reads. I love that it is what gives her strength and support in her life, and that it teaches her things. (Awww, baby poly Mori! Who's also cool with queer people and expects she's just odd for being exclusively interested in dudes!)
Among Others is a book in deep dialogue with the entire corpus of SFF that existed in the era Jo Walton grew up in -- it's written with an assumed knowledge about all of them, as Mori is writing in her diary to herself and DOES know all about them. But I love the way it does just assume you know what it's talking about, when it brings up all these many many books and authors and things. And I know some of them, yes, but not others, because they are not the books of my youth. Hearing talk of a NEW HEINLEIN is weird to me because Heinlein kind of feels to me like he's part of the ancient history of SF! Or that The White Dragon is only just coming out -- it means that the books where Anne McCaffrey tries to pretend Pern is all science fiction haven't actually been written yet! Because I mean Anne McCaffrey was definitely part of my youth but is one of the few recurring mentions that was. (although it meant that when at one point Mori refers to a blue dragon as "she" I went NO. WRONG. Because greens and golds are the only females! Blues are MALE!)
Anyways, even though I didn't personally know the books being referred to it doesn't matter, because I know how to read past things I don't understand to pick up on what's being said around and through them. So I probably missed some minor nuances, but that's okay, because the central theme of FANDOM SAVES LIVES is a wonderful one. Even if by "fandom" Jo Walton (and Mori) mean affirmational, not transformational fandom. I always forget that there's this huge massive group of people out there who call themselves fandom who don't do the fanfic thing! So it's always weird reading Jo Walton's lj posts where she talks about fandom because I have to remind myself that she's talking about a slightly different fandom than I am.
It's hard to know how to talk about the rest of the book, though, beyond the HI FANDOM ILU. Because Mori's life is at least in some respects Jo Walton's life, and the book gave me all sorts of FEELINGS about Mori and then I have no idea what to think about Jo Walton. When I read RPF it's clear: the entire thing is fictionalized and I am having feelings over a character that the author created from the public persona of that real person. With this book, since it is kind of like Jo Walton is writing AU RPF about herself, it gets everything all muddled up! What's fact and what's fiction? Where do I draw the line? I am comfortable with RPF because I understand it, but this book doesn't fit neatly into any category of thing, and it gets under my skin, because I don't know how to think about it.
Oh, another thing, though -- I memorized Jo Walton's poem Eucatastrophe Poem a while ago and I got to thinking about it again after reading Among Others. Because both are stories about what happens after the glorious victory over evil. It's clearly a subject Jo Walton is interested in! The two works are about very different things in relation to that: Eucatastrophe Poem is about how seeing it as a glorious victory over evil is dangerous, because nuance is important; Among Others is about how to go on living after you have done your One Big Thing in life.
But elements of each sneak into each other -- there's the line in the poem about how the "intruders" won't ever be comfortable again when they go back to their own world, after having won. Although now that I think about it, the thematic crossover isn't the same in the other direction. Mori's mother is unhesitatingly talked about as evil, no good aspects to her at all. No possibility for redemption, for reciprocal forgiveness between the two sides like in the poem. Which is interesting! That the completely made-up fantasy world has the nuance, and the one that's based at least in part on reality is the one that doesn't.
Another thing -- the incest thing. Daniel's drunken attempt to have sex with Mori that once is -- well, it's creepy and wrong. And that's with me doing my best to look at it without being biased by my incest squick. Mori talks quite matter-of-factly about how actually there's nothing inherently wrong with incest as long as there's no procreation from it, it's just that she doesn't actually have any sexual interest in Daniel. And she even finds his interest in her flattering. And later in the book she thinks that he's not that bad as a father.
But. Okay. While I might be able to accept that that's true on a broader basis about incest, there are issues involved beyond just the degrees of consanguinity. The imbalance of power in a parent-child relationship makes it very hard to argue that the younger party could give meaningful consent. And Mori is still just a kid, just a teenager. So I find Mori's flattered feelings kind of sad: she doesn't recognize that Daniel is in fact being a total creeper. Her dad shares books and talks about them with her, her dad isn't insane and evil like her mother, her dad isn't trying to control her via magic like her aunts, so her dad's an okay sort. OH MORI. Daniel doesn't recognize when he's trying to take advantage of his position of authority over you in order to sexually abuse you! It doesn't matter that you were able to successfully rebuff him without problem; the fact that he would even TRY means that he is not an okay sort!
This is a fantastic novel; it feels really real and Mori feels really real. Except it's partially autobiographical which just makes me feel weird about it -- I don't know what to think! Except that it's excellent. I love how deeply important books are to her; I love the deep discussions and the meaning and the enjoyableness and the sheer breadth of stuff she reads. I love that it is what gives her strength and support in her life, and that it teaches her things. (Awww, baby poly Mori! Who's also cool with queer people and expects she's just odd for being exclusively interested in dudes!)
Among Others is a book in deep dialogue with the entire corpus of SFF that existed in the era Jo Walton grew up in -- it's written with an assumed knowledge about all of them, as Mori is writing in her diary to herself and DOES know all about them. But I love the way it does just assume you know what it's talking about, when it brings up all these many many books and authors and things. And I know some of them, yes, but not others, because they are not the books of my youth. Hearing talk of a NEW HEINLEIN is weird to me because Heinlein kind of feels to me like he's part of the ancient history of SF! Or that The White Dragon is only just coming out -- it means that the books where Anne McCaffrey tries to pretend Pern is all science fiction haven't actually been written yet! Because I mean Anne McCaffrey was definitely part of my youth but is one of the few recurring mentions that was. (although it meant that when at one point Mori refers to a blue dragon as "she" I went NO. WRONG. Because greens and golds are the only females! Blues are MALE!)
Anyways, even though I didn't personally know the books being referred to it doesn't matter, because I know how to read past things I don't understand to pick up on what's being said around and through them. So I probably missed some minor nuances, but that's okay, because the central theme of FANDOM SAVES LIVES is a wonderful one. Even if by "fandom" Jo Walton (and Mori) mean affirmational, not transformational fandom. I always forget that there's this huge massive group of people out there who call themselves fandom who don't do the fanfic thing! So it's always weird reading Jo Walton's lj posts where she talks about fandom because I have to remind myself that she's talking about a slightly different fandom than I am.
It's hard to know how to talk about the rest of the book, though, beyond the HI FANDOM ILU. Because Mori's life is at least in some respects Jo Walton's life, and the book gave me all sorts of FEELINGS about Mori and then I have no idea what to think about Jo Walton. When I read RPF it's clear: the entire thing is fictionalized and I am having feelings over a character that the author created from the public persona of that real person. With this book, since it is kind of like Jo Walton is writing AU RPF about herself, it gets everything all muddled up! What's fact and what's fiction? Where do I draw the line? I am comfortable with RPF because I understand it, but this book doesn't fit neatly into any category of thing, and it gets under my skin, because I don't know how to think about it.
Oh, another thing, though -- I memorized Jo Walton's poem Eucatastrophe Poem a while ago and I got to thinking about it again after reading Among Others. Because both are stories about what happens after the glorious victory over evil. It's clearly a subject Jo Walton is interested in! The two works are about very different things in relation to that: Eucatastrophe Poem is about how seeing it as a glorious victory over evil is dangerous, because nuance is important; Among Others is about how to go on living after you have done your One Big Thing in life.
But elements of each sneak into each other -- there's the line in the poem about how the "intruders" won't ever be comfortable again when they go back to their own world, after having won. Although now that I think about it, the thematic crossover isn't the same in the other direction. Mori's mother is unhesitatingly talked about as evil, no good aspects to her at all. No possibility for redemption, for reciprocal forgiveness between the two sides like in the poem. Which is interesting! That the completely made-up fantasy world has the nuance, and the one that's based at least in part on reality is the one that doesn't.
Another thing -- the incest thing. Daniel's drunken attempt to have sex with Mori that once is -- well, it's creepy and wrong. And that's with me doing my best to look at it without being biased by my incest squick. Mori talks quite matter-of-factly about how actually there's nothing inherently wrong with incest as long as there's no procreation from it, it's just that she doesn't actually have any sexual interest in Daniel. And she even finds his interest in her flattering. And later in the book she thinks that he's not that bad as a father.
But. Okay. While I might be able to accept that that's true on a broader basis about incest, there are issues involved beyond just the degrees of consanguinity. The imbalance of power in a parent-child relationship makes it very hard to argue that the younger party could give meaningful consent. And Mori is still just a kid, just a teenager. So I find Mori's flattered feelings kind of sad: she doesn't recognize that Daniel is in fact being a total creeper. Her dad shares books and talks about them with her, her dad isn't insane and evil like her mother, her dad isn't trying to control her via magic like her aunts, so her dad's an okay sort. OH MORI. Daniel doesn't recognize when he's trying to take advantage of his position of authority over you in order to sexually abuse you! It doesn't matter that you were able to successfully rebuff him without problem; the fact that he would even TRY means that he is not an okay sort!
no subject
Re: affirmational vs transformational fandom: I did not think of that! Because yes, absolutely there's a big difference. I was still able to relate really strongly to Mori's discovery of her karass, because there really is nothing better than sitting down with someone who speaks your language, and that was probably one of the best parts of the book. I find it interesting that Walton apparently thinks of fandom as affirmational fandom in her lj too, though? I did not know this thing! And I wouldn't have suspected it, because -- the climax of the book was essentially an act of transformational fandom? Not in the traditional sense, I guess, and I don't know if I'm articulating this very well, but the writing of things from Lord of the Rings and Lathe of Heaven into Mori's narrative, using the magic of those books to defeat her mother, that was fic. That read like a thing you could do with fic, in a world where the rules of magic operate that way for Mori! And I loved the book so much for going there.
Ahhh goodness okay I have no idea if that made any sense. MY BIG TANGLE OF FEELINGS FOR AMONG OTHERS, LET ME SHOW YOU THEM.
no subject
Yes, her karass is the BEST THING EVER omg. I remember what it feels like to be AMONG YOUR OWN KIND for the first time like that!
But yeah, from what I can tell, Jo Walton's a part of affirmational fandom and that alone. I mean -- half the poems she writes are TOTALLY fanfiction, and once or twice she's even talked about one as such*; and practically all of her books are extremely fanfictiony too**; but despite that, our kind of fandom is not the one she lives in, not the one she loves, not her people. It is interesting! Because she clearly thinks about books she reads in a transformative way, and yet she is not involved in that side of fandom at all.
I didn't identify the climax as being what you talk about! Maybe that's because I'm not familiar enough with Lord of the Rings or Lathe of Heaven to recognize what was happening. Could you explain your thoughts in more detail? Because this sounds very interesting!
*eg her problem of Susan poem
**Tooth and Claw: Anthony Trollope fanfic. Small Change trilogy: Brat Farrar fanfic. The King's Peace books: arthurian legend fanfic.