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sophia_sol) wrote2014-10-22 02:39 pm
sophia_sol) wrote2014-10-22 02:39 pm
Entry tags:
Oolon Colluphid Was Right - translation
Some time ago Melannen posted a delightful SGA fic that required the characters to talk in nothing but geeky references, and said at the end, "Translation is left as an exercise for the readers." Recently she encouraged someone to post a translation, so what follows is my best effort. I occasionally went for an extremely loose translation as that's what seemed to fit the story best, and in one place was stumped entirely. I bolded the lines that are my translation so you can see at a glance what's original Melannen and what's me. If anyone wants to argue with me about my translation choices or enlighten me on the "Older Brother" reference PLEASE DO. And Melannen, I'd love to hear how close I got to your intended meaning!
(the translated fic reads very oddly, I'm afraid, as the characters keep on responding directly to the references, not just the underlying meaning, so there's now what look like some pretty glaring non-sequiturs. It makes me feel a little bit a failure as a translator that I can't make the fic read just as well in translation as it did in the original. But in my defense I don't think there is a way to seamlessly translate this fic into readable non-nerd without losing a lot of the banter and charm!)
Oolon Colluphid Was Right, by![[archiveofourown.org profile]](https://p.dreamwidth.org/b164c54b26e4/-/archiveofourown.org/favicon.ico)
melannen
The Flaw in the Translator
Teyla gave them full points for design: the prisoners' cells opened onto a narrow corridor; any escape was thoroughly blocked by a transparent force-shield, but the view both into and out of the cells was unobstructed, and the glinting lenses of security cameras made it clear that they were always observed. Between the cells, however, were solid stone walls; with one prisoner per cell, they could hear but not see each other. It was a clever setup, if what one wanted most of all from one's prisoners was information: they could not use any coded writing or hand signals to communicate, and spoken language would, of course, be immediately understood to any who had traversed the Stargates.
The only way for the prisoners to prevent knowledge from reaching their captors would be to remain incommunicado even from each other, despite the ease of conversation. After a few weeks of this, she supposed, even their team would begin to take risks, if only to banish the silence for a little while.
She'd expected Rodney to crack already, she admitted, but he'd noticed the cameras while they were being led in and only let out a small barrage of their remarkably scatological curse words before descending into a sullen silence. After a while he'd tapped out a message in code, on the floor of his cell - "Do you either of you understand this?". Ronon had tapped back, shortly, "Sound - It translates," and they'd heard the frustrated smack of a hand against the wall, and then more silence.
Now they were waiting: waiting for John to be dragged back from the chamber he'd been taken to. There was always the chance, of course, that he wouldn't be brought back at all, but they had seen four cells prepared for occupation, and in a scenario like this, it was all the better that he would be returned, to inspire them to speak to each other.
And he was returned: before what Teyla would have calculated as a day's passage. In the glimpse she saw of him, he was bruised and strained, but still smirking, and stumbling against the guards at least mostly under his own power.
When the corridor was empty again, John called out, "Are the rest of you okay?"
There was a moment of silence as the Teyla and Ronon tried to work out how to reveal the minimum information: and then Rodney said, "All of us are fine." And then he added, "Older Brother's* doing just fine, too."
*I have no idea what the reference to "Older Brother" is and it's pretty much the most ungoogleable phrase possible. I had vague thoughts about it possibly being a reference to "Big Brother is watching you" since that's a relevant theme in the plot of this fic, but otoh that doesn't work with how Teyla talks about Older Brother in a later paragraph. So basically I'm stumped!
It hadn't occurred to Teyla to wonder what Rodney, with his never-still mind, had been doing in the hours of silence. He had been figuring out a way to communicate with John, it appeared.
John answered, after a short silence, "Metaphorical speech?"
"Exactly," Rodney answered, delightedly. "Metaphorical speech. The gate translator is helpless."
"The translator isn't perfect,'" John answered. "---also you had better not tell any of the men that this worked."
"...More importantly, you two, you with us?" Rodney asked.
Teyla had been on Atlantis just long enough to begin to understand what they were doing, with the barrage of incomprehensible names and phrases. "I know of your older brother," she said, cautiously. "He is indeed thriving: one of your colleagues read me a missive from home." The tendency of the Atlanteans to pepper their speech with untranslateable homeworld allusions had, at first, bothered her greatly; it had seemed like deliberate unfriendliness, until she realized that, in a culture grown up without the Stargates' aid in communicating with others, they had never been taught to avoid them. It had not occurred to her, until now, to use this oddity as a weapon.
Ronon answered, "I'm with her," which was answer enough.
"Hah! I thought it would work," Rodney said.
"Yes, who knew being geeky would come in this handy?" John asked, his usual insouciance back in his voice. Teyla frowned. With John, that either meant that he was fine, or he was working twice as hard to hide his pain.
"How was the torture?" Rodney asked him.
"Hardly torturous," he answered. "I'm not going to break."
Rodney made a completely noncommittal noise in response. "You ready to escape?"
"Houdini didn't believe in ghosts. And not unless you want to risk a tentacle monster."
"....Creatures of the dark, yes. Tentacle monster, blech," Rodney answered.
"Is escaping in the dark a possibility?"
"Maybe. But we'd need a distraction. And a guide."
"Hmm," John said.
"...have you found a guide already?"
Silence from John.
"....Womanizer," Rodney muttered. That one, at least, Teyla had heard before.
"Kirk respects women," John replied in a sing-song voice.
"Yeah, well, you'll notice I didn't follow the obvious thr-- go the obvious place and say Theseus," Rodney grumbled.
"Anyway, not exactly," John said. "More... hmm. Someone to pass a message to the outside."
"What?" Rodney said. "Sorry, a street of feathers?"
"No Broadway phase in your youth? No?"
"You know Broadway?"
"...we are definitely never telling the Marines," John muttered. "This is harder than it sounds, I'll try to come up with something else--"
"Wait. Broadway. Eponine. I think I had to play accompaniment for that once. Give me a second. Um. Finding a message??"
"Close enough. Anyway, yeah. Tell everyone else what's going on; hope; save ourselves; escape through the walls."
"...Haldir at Helm's Deep was just Jackson. I revoke your geek license."
"Bite me," John answered cheerfully.
"I love you," Rodney sighed.
There was a moment's silence, and then, "I love you too," John said.
Rodney choked and sputtered for a minute. "Seriously?"
"What, you thought it would take a near-death experience?"
"I'm not talking to you any more," Rodney answered.
Teyla had gotten very little of that, but she knew John and Rodney: whatever the news was, it was not bad; whatever the plan was, it did not call for immediate action. She thought for a moment, and recalled the recent lesson in typed English that she and Ronon had been given by a young lieutenant, which had been interrupted by a tour through her 'macros folder'. Perhaps.... "I have no idea what you're talking about," she said, firmly.
"Ah," said Ronon from one cell over, as John, very quietly, started laughing.
(the translated fic reads very oddly, I'm afraid, as the characters keep on responding directly to the references, not just the underlying meaning, so there's now what look like some pretty glaring non-sequiturs. It makes me feel a little bit a failure as a translator that I can't make the fic read just as well in translation as it did in the original. But in my defense I don't think there is a way to seamlessly translate this fic into readable non-nerd without losing a lot of the banter and charm!)
Oolon Colluphid Was Right, by
The Flaw in the Translator
Teyla gave them full points for design: the prisoners' cells opened onto a narrow corridor; any escape was thoroughly blocked by a transparent force-shield, but the view both into and out of the cells was unobstructed, and the glinting lenses of security cameras made it clear that they were always observed. Between the cells, however, were solid stone walls; with one prisoner per cell, they could hear but not see each other. It was a clever setup, if what one wanted most of all from one's prisoners was information: they could not use any coded writing or hand signals to communicate, and spoken language would, of course, be immediately understood to any who had traversed the Stargates.
The only way for the prisoners to prevent knowledge from reaching their captors would be to remain incommunicado even from each other, despite the ease of conversation. After a few weeks of this, she supposed, even their team would begin to take risks, if only to banish the silence for a little while.
She'd expected Rodney to crack already, she admitted, but he'd noticed the cameras while they were being led in and only let out a small barrage of their remarkably scatological curse words before descending into a sullen silence. After a while he'd tapped out a message in code, on the floor of his cell - "Do you either of you understand this?". Ronon had tapped back, shortly, "Sound - It translates," and they'd heard the frustrated smack of a hand against the wall, and then more silence.
Now they were waiting: waiting for John to be dragged back from the chamber he'd been taken to. There was always the chance, of course, that he wouldn't be brought back at all, but they had seen four cells prepared for occupation, and in a scenario like this, it was all the better that he would be returned, to inspire them to speak to each other.
And he was returned: before what Teyla would have calculated as a day's passage. In the glimpse she saw of him, he was bruised and strained, but still smirking, and stumbling against the guards at least mostly under his own power.
When the corridor was empty again, John called out, "Are the rest of you okay?"
There was a moment of silence as the Teyla and Ronon tried to work out how to reveal the minimum information: and then Rodney said, "All of us are fine." And then he added, "Older Brother's* doing just fine, too."
*I have no idea what the reference to "Older Brother" is and it's pretty much the most ungoogleable phrase possible. I had vague thoughts about it possibly being a reference to "Big Brother is watching you" since that's a relevant theme in the plot of this fic, but otoh that doesn't work with how Teyla talks about Older Brother in a later paragraph. So basically I'm stumped!
It hadn't occurred to Teyla to wonder what Rodney, with his never-still mind, had been doing in the hours of silence. He had been figuring out a way to communicate with John, it appeared.
John answered, after a short silence, "Metaphorical speech?"
"Exactly," Rodney answered, delightedly. "Metaphorical speech. The gate translator is helpless."
"The translator isn't perfect,'" John answered. "---also you had better not tell any of the men that this worked."
"...More importantly, you two, you with us?" Rodney asked.
Teyla had been on Atlantis just long enough to begin to understand what they were doing, with the barrage of incomprehensible names and phrases. "I know of your older brother," she said, cautiously. "He is indeed thriving: one of your colleagues read me a missive from home." The tendency of the Atlanteans to pepper their speech with untranslateable homeworld allusions had, at first, bothered her greatly; it had seemed like deliberate unfriendliness, until she realized that, in a culture grown up without the Stargates' aid in communicating with others, they had never been taught to avoid them. It had not occurred to her, until now, to use this oddity as a weapon.
Ronon answered, "I'm with her," which was answer enough.
"Hah! I thought it would work," Rodney said.
"Yes, who knew being geeky would come in this handy?" John asked, his usual insouciance back in his voice. Teyla frowned. With John, that either meant that he was fine, or he was working twice as hard to hide his pain.
"How was the torture?" Rodney asked him.
"Hardly torturous," he answered. "I'm not going to break."
Rodney made a completely noncommittal noise in response. "You ready to escape?"
"Houdini didn't believe in ghosts. And not unless you want to risk a tentacle monster."
"....Creatures of the dark, yes. Tentacle monster, blech," Rodney answered.
"Is escaping in the dark a possibility?"
"Maybe. But we'd need a distraction. And a guide."
"Hmm," John said.
"...have you found a guide already?"
Silence from John.
"....Womanizer," Rodney muttered. That one, at least, Teyla had heard before.
"Kirk respects women," John replied in a sing-song voice.
"Yeah, well, you'll notice I didn't follow the obvious thr-- go the obvious place and say Theseus," Rodney grumbled.
"Anyway, not exactly," John said. "More... hmm. Someone to pass a message to the outside."
"What?" Rodney said. "Sorry, a street of feathers?"
"No Broadway phase in your youth? No?"
"You know Broadway?"
"...we are definitely never telling the Marines," John muttered. "This is harder than it sounds, I'll try to come up with something else--"
"Wait. Broadway. Eponine. I think I had to play accompaniment for that once. Give me a second. Um. Finding a message??"
"Close enough. Anyway, yeah. Tell everyone else what's going on; hope; save ourselves; escape through the walls."
"...Haldir at Helm's Deep was just Jackson. I revoke your geek license."
"Bite me," John answered cheerfully.
"I love you," Rodney sighed.
There was a moment's silence, and then, "I love you too," John said.
Rodney choked and sputtered for a minute. "Seriously?"
"What, you thought it would take a near-death experience?"
"I'm not talking to you any more," Rodney answered.
Teyla had gotten very little of that, but she knew John and Rodney: whatever the news was, it was not bad; whatever the plan was, it did not call for immediate action. She thought for a moment, and recalled the recent lesson in typed English that she and Ronon had been given by a young lieutenant, which had been interrupted by a tour through her 'macros folder'. Perhaps.... "I have no idea what you're talking about," she said, firmly.
"Ah," said Ronon from one cell over, as John, very quietly, started laughing.
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And I guess I can see why "Oolon Colluphid Was Right" means "There is no Babelfish," but it seems to me it makes more sense as "There is no God." :P
It's also ambiguous if "Obi Wan right before he died" refers to "a distraction" or "someone to disable the prison locks", but I think your translation is probably also right there.
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Haha, I didn't even know that there was another possible interpretation of the Obi-Wan line, because I've never seen the movie. I went solely by the wikipedia plot-summary :P
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Before Obi Wan sacrifices himself in a duel with Vader to distract the stormtroopers, he sneaks into a power conduit and disables it, allowing the Millennium Falcon to escape.
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I had read "risking a dianoga" as more a reference to "going out through the sewers / waste disposal" than a straight-up tentacle monster, but I guess it works either way. :-)
Was Haldir -- have you seen the movie, or is it also a wiki summary thing? Because I have a vague memory that I'd've interpreted Shahrazad and Haldir in that order rather differently, as something like "stalling for time; much-needed backup arrives", but I haven't seen any of the LOTR movies in ten solid years at this point, so I could extremely well be wrong about that. And you've obviously got a lot more nerd cred on the Shahrazad front than I do! ;D
As to Older Brother, I'm stumped too. As an SG-1 rather than SGA fan, I did spend... a somewhat embarrassing amount of time... counting off this fic's cast members on my fingers here, because in an SG-1 fic the reference would most likely be to Teal'c's larval Goa'uld, Junior, but that clearly doesn't apply here. The only other interpretation I could come up with - which iirc I went with on my first reading of this fic, way back when - was that it was some kind of reference to the rest of the Atlantis team back at base, which also doesn't make any sense now I think about it, because they have no way to communicate with the rest of the team, do they?
(This is fun. ^_^)
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Haldir - again, google was my only source. "stalling for time; much-needed back-up arrives" makes a great deal of sense in-fic for how to translate those two references in sequence, though I really don't think "stalling for time" is an accurate representation of what Shahrazad was doing. But I couldn't really come up with any translation of that one that I was really happy with in fic context. But I like "much-needed back-up arrives" as a translation of the Haldir reference. I think it fits the general outline of what I can make out of the plan much better.
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Yeah, I couldn't really come up with any one-on-one correspondence for Shahrazad, because what she's doing is really more of getting her captor on her side and convincing him not to kill her in some sort of reverse Stockholm syndrome. (Oh god. I obviously had to re-read Melannen's fic in conjunction with yours, and now I'm going all Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra! ;P Doesn't help that with four recent-Afghani-immigrant housemates and one non-fannish American aunt, I'm doing a lot of filtering out fannish references from my speech in brickspace anyway.)
Er. Yeah. I think what I was saying up there is that, yeah, I can't find any real solid interpretation of what Shahrazad actually did that would require a Haldir as a next step. Yeah. *pulls hair*
Oh, I did have one more vague thought about Older Brother. Like, looking at Teyla's whole paragraph there, could "older brother" translate roughly as "tendency to speak in untranslatable Earther jargon"? Maybe? Possibly? Like, I still have no idea where the reference would be to, but... I don't know, it made sense at the time. ;P
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(Okay, I can't resist one bit: you're right both ways about the title? Oolon Colluphid's argument is "The mere existence of a universal translator proves that there is no God." Or as John would have put it more succinctly if I wasn't stuck using references that were already well known before they left Earth, which was harder than you might think, "FML".)
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(and thank you for clarification on your thoughts re: the title!)
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Huh. Now I'm leaning the other way, John getting in the spirit of the thing and Rodney keeping his phrasing, because otherwise the gate translator is nonsensically prescriptivist such that it would significantly obstruct communication.
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What a fabulous thing fandom is. Hurray for
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Another suggestion for older brother
(Anonymous) 2024-05-30 12:50 pm (UTC)(link)However, I did find something else for Older Brother. - God. The good Shepherd.
Could they be reassuring themselves that John is okay?
Just a thought.
Thanks again for making all the geekdom into an actual story